乔姆斯基与福柯论辩文字整理稿.docx
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乔姆斯基与福柯论辩文字整理稿.docx
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乔姆斯基与福柯论辩文字整理稿
乔姆斯基与福柯论辩文字整理稿(英文)
HumanNature:
JusticeversusPower,NoamChomskydebateswithMichelFoucault,1971
CHAIR:
Ladiesandgentlemen,welcometothethirddebateoftheInternationalPhilosophers'Project.Tonight'sdebatersareMr.MichelFoucault,oftheCollegedeFrance,andMr.NoamChomsky,oftheMassachusettsInstituteofTechnology.Bothphilosophershavepointsincommonandpointsofdifference.Perhapsthebestwaytocomparebothphilosopherswouldbetoseethemastunnellersthroughamountainworkingatoppositesidesofthesamemountainwithdifferenttools,withoutevenknowingiftheyareworkingineachother'sdirection.Butbotharedoingtheirjobswithquitenewideas,diggingasprofoundlyaspossiblewithanequalcommitmentinphilosophyasinpolitics:
enoughreasons,itseemstomeforustoexpectafascinatingdebateaboutphilosophyandaboutpolitics.Iintend,therefore,nottoloseanytimeandtostartoffwithacentral,perennialquestion:
thequestionofhumannature.Allstudiesofman,fromhistorytolinguisticsandpsychology,arefacedwiththequestionofwhether,inthelastinstance,wearetheproductofallkindsofexternalfactors,orif,inspiteofourdifferences,wehavesomethingwecouldcallacommonhumannature,bywhichwecanrecogniseeachotherashumanbeings.SomyfirstquestionistoyouMr.Chomsky,becauseyouoftenemploytheconceptofhumannature,inwhichconnectionyouevenusetermslike"innateideas"and"innatestructures".Whichargumentscanyouderivefromlinguisticstogivesuchacentralpositiontothisconceptofhumannature?
CHOMSKY:
Well,letmebegininaslightlytechnicalway.Apersonwhoisinterestedinstudyinglanguagesisfacedwithaverydefiniteempiricalproblem.He'sfacedwithanorganism,amature,let'ssayadult,speaker,whohassomehowacquiredanamazingrangeofabilities,whichenablehiminparticulartosaywhathemeans,tounderstandwhatpeoplesaytohim,todothisinafashionthatIthinkispropertocallhighlycreative...thatis,muchofwhatapersonsaysinhisnormalintercoursewithothersisnovel,muchofwhatyouhearisnew,itdoesn'tbearanycloseresemblancetoanythinginyourexperience;it'snotrandomnovelbehaviour,clearly,it'sbehaviourwhichisinsomesensewhichisveryhardtocharacterise,appropriatetosituations.AndinfactithasmanyofthecharacteristicsofwhatIthinkmightverywellbecalledcreativity.Now,thepersonwhohasacquiredthisintricateandhighlyarticulatedandorganisedcollectionofabilities-thecollectionofabilitiesthatwecallknowingalanguage-hasbeenexposedtoacertainexperience;hehasbeenpresentedinthecourseofhislifetimewithacertainamountofdata,ofdirectexperiencewithalanguage.Wecaninvestigatethedatathat'savailabletothisperson;havingdoneso,inprinciple,we'refacedwithareasonablyclearandwell-delineatedscientificproblem,namelythatofaccountingforthegapbetweenthereallyquitesmallquantityofdata,smallandratherdegenerateinquality,that'spresentedtothechild,andtheveryhighlyarticulated,highlysystematic,profoundlyorganisedresultingknowledgethathesomehowderivesfromthesedata.Furthermorewenoticethatvaryingindividualswithveryvariedexperienceinaparticularlanguageneverthelessarriveatsystemswhichareverymuchcongruenttooneanother.ThesystemsthattwospeakersofEnglisharriveatonthebasisoftheirverydifferentexperiencesarecongruentinthesensethat,overanoverwhelmingrange,whatoneofthemsays,theothercanunderstand.Furthermore,evenmoreremarkable,wenoticethatinawiderangeoflanguages,infactallthathavebeenstudiedseriously,thereareremarkablelimitationsonthekindofsystemsthatemergefromtheverydifferentkindsofexperiencestowhichpeopleareexposed.Thereisonlyonepossibleexplanation,whichIhavetogiveinaratherschematicfashion,forthisremarkablephenomenon,namelytheassumptionthattheindividualhimselfcontributesagooddeal,anoverwhelmingpartinfact,ofthegeneralschematicstructureandperhapsevenofthespecificcontentoftheknowledgethatheultimatelyderivesfromthisveryscatteredandlimitedexperience.Apersonwhoknowsalanguagehasacquiredthatknowledgebecauseheapproachedthelearningexperiencewithaveryexplicitanddetailedschematismthattellshimwhatkindoflanguageitisthatheisbeingexposedto.Thatis,toputitratherloosely:
thechildmustbeginwiththeknowledge,certainlynotwiththeknowledgethathe'shearingEnglishorDutchorFrenchorsomethingelse,buthedoesstartwiththeknowledgethathe'shearingahumanlanguageofaverynarrowandexplicittype,thatpermitsaverysmallrangeofvariation.Anditisbecausehebeginswiththathighlyorganisedandveryrestrictiveschematism,thatheisabletomakethehugeleapfromscatteredanddegeneratedatatohighlyorganisedknowledge.AndfurthermoreIshouldaddthatwecangoacertaindistance,Ithinkaratherlongdistance,towardspresentingthepropertiesofthissystemofknowledge,thatIwouldcallinnatelanguageorinstinctiveknowledge,thatthechildbringstolanguagelearning;andalsowecangoalongwaytowardsdescribingthesystemthatismentallyrepresentedwhenhehasacquiredthisknowledge.Iwouldclaimthenthatthisinstinctiveknowledge,ifyoulike,thisschematismthatmakesitpossibletoderivecomplexandintricateknowledgeonthebasisofverypartialdata,isonefundamentalconstituentofhumannature.InthiscaseIthinkafundamentalconstituentbecauseoftherolethatlanguageplays,notmerelyincommunication,butalsoinexpressionofthoughtandinteractionbetweenpersons;andIassumethatinotherdomainsofhumanintelligence,inotherdomainsofhumancognitionandbehaviour,somethingofthesamesortmustbetrue.Well,thiscollection,thismassofschematisms,innateorganisingprinciples,whichguidesoursocialandintellectualandindividualbehaviour,that'swhatImeantorefertobytheconceptofhumannature.
CHAIR:
Well,Mr.Foucault,whenIthinkofyourbookslikeTheHistoryofMadnessandWordsandObjects,Igettheimpressionthatyouareworkingonacompletelydifferentlevelandwithatotallyoppositeaimandgoal;whenIthinkofthewordschematisminrelationtohumannature,Isupposeyouaretryingtoelaborateseveralperiodswithseveralschematisms.Whatdoyousaytothis?
FOUCAULT:
Well,ifyoudon'tmindIwillanswerinFrench,becausemyEnglishissopoorthatIwouldbeashamedofansweringinEnglish.ItistruethatImistrustthenotionofhumannaturealittle,andforthefollowingreason:
Ibelievethatoftheconceptsornotionswhichasciencecanuse,notallhavethesamedegreeofelaboration,andthatingeneraltheyhaveneitherthesamefunctionnorthesametypeofpossibleuseinscientificdiscourse.Let'staketheexampleofbiology.Youwillfindconceptswithaclassifyingfunction,conceptswithadifferentiatingfunction,andconceptswithananalyticalfunction:
someofthemenableustocharacteriseobjects,forexamplethatof"tissue";otherstoisolateelements,likethatof"hereditaryfeature";otherstofixrelations,suchasthatof"reflex".Thereareatthesametimeelementswhichplayaroleinthediscourseandintheinternalrulesofthereasoningpractice.Buttherealsoexist"peripheral"notions,thosebywhichscientificpracticedesignatesitself,differentiatesitselfinrelationtootherpractices,delimitsitsdomainofobjects,anddesignateswhatitconsiderstobethetotalityofitsfuturetasks.Thenotionoflifeplayedthisroletosomeextentinbiologyduringacertainperiod.Intheseventeenthandeighteenthcenturies,thenotionoflifewashardlyusedinstudyingnature:
oneclassifiednaturalbeings,whetherlivingornon-living,inavasthierarchicaltableauwhichwentfrommineralstoman;thebreakbetweenthemineralsandtheplantsoranimalswasrelativelyundecided;epistemologicallyitwasonlyimportanttofixtheirpositionsonceandforallinanindisputableway.Attheendoftheeighteenthcentury,thedescriptionandanalysisofthesenaturalbeingsshowed,throughtheuseofmorehighlyperfectedinstrumentsandthelatesttechniques,anentiredomainofobjects,anentirefieldofrelationsandprocesseswhichhaveenabledustodefinethespecificityofbiologyintheknowledgeofnature.Canonesaythatresearchintolifehasfinallyconstituteditselfinbiologicalscience?
Hastheconceptoflifebeenresponsiblefortheorganisationofbiologicalknowledge?
Idon'tthinkso.Itseemstomemorelikelythatthetransformationsofbiologicalknowledgeattheendoftheeighteenthcentury,weredemonstratedononehandbyawholeseriesofnewconceptsforuseinscientificdiscourseandontheotherhandgaverisetoanotionlikethatoflifewhichhasenabledustodesignate,todelimitandtosituateacertaintypeofscientificdiscourse,amongotherthings.Iwouldsaythatthenotionoflifeisnotascientificconcept;ithasbeenanepistemologicalindicatorofwhichtheclassifying,delimitingandotherfunctionshadaneffectonscientificdiscussions,andnotonwhattheyweretalkingabout:
Well,itseemstomethatthenotionofhumannatureisofthesametype.Itwasnotbystudyinghumannaturethatlinguistsdiscoveredthelawsofconsonantmutation,orFreudtheprinciplesoftheanalysisofdreams,orculturalanthropologiststhestructureofmyths.Inthehistoryofknowledge,thenotionofhumannatureseemstomemainlytohaveplayedtheroleofanepistemologicalindicatortodesignatecertaintypesofdiscourseinrelationtoorinoppositiontotheologyorbiologyorhistory.Iwouldfinditdifficulttoseeinthisascientificconcep
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