Medieval naval fleets.docx
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Medieval naval fleets.docx
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Medievalnavalfleets
Medievalnavalfleets
OnequestionIwanttoaskishowmanyshipscomposedatypicalmedieval-eranavalfleet.AFAIKmostmodernfleetsarecomposedofahandfulofmissiledestroyersalongwithafewsubmarinesandoneortwoaircraftcareers,withasupplementoflogisticssupportships.Ibelievemedievalfleetswilldifferverymuchinscale.Anyapproximationintheirsize?
Well,dependsonwhatregionyourtalkingabout,andtimeperiod(late,high,earlymedievaleras,etc.).IfyourtalkingaboutNorthernEurope,theirfleetstendtobeabitsmallerthaninSouthernEuropeandtheMediterranian.Inthelate/rennassainceperiod,intheMed,therewereafewseabattlesconsistingofhundredsofships,anexampleofthisbeingatLepanto.ButIbelieveyouneedtogointomoredetailforthisquestiontobeansweredaccuratly.
BattleoftheHelgeå(1026)-600Danishshipsand480Swedish/Norwegianships
BattleofSluys(1340)-250Englishshipsand190Frenchships
BattleofLepanto(1571,technicallynottheMiddleAges)-280Christianshipsand217Ottomanships
Large-scalenavalbattleswererareintheMiddleAgesbecauseshipswereusedtotransportmenandsuppliesratherthanfightoneanother. Mostnavalengagementhadfewerthanahundredshipsonbothsides. DuringtheVikingAgetheNorsehaduncontestedcontroloftheseas,andtheByzantinesandVenetianspolicedtheMediterranean.
Well,nottheVenetians,astheystillhadtheirPirateproblem,butstill.
AndhowcomeIneverheardofthefirsttwo?
?
Curseyouhistorybook,youhavefailedmeagain!
Andthetypeofshipsisdifferenttoo.Inthemeditereansea,thereweregalley-likeshipswithoars'nthat.,verynarrowandmostlyhadthreesails
Inthenorthernregionsofeurope(france,netherlands,germany,england,etc..)theyusedcarracksandcaravels
Well,theyusedthoseinthelate/rennassainceyears.Ithadn'tbeeninventedtillthe15hundreds.Rather,forawhile,theyusedcogs,hulks,longboats,merchantships...anythingtheycouldgettheirhandson,asmostfocusedlessonbattlesatseaastheydidputtingtheirresourcestotheirwarsonland.Thisis,because,frankly,theirshipsduringmostoftheeraweren'tthatgreat.Theycouldcarrytroopsandresources,aye,butwhenitcametobattle...eh,theydidn'tperformsowell.
ithinktheshipsintheNorthernregionsmight'vesucked(exceptthosevikingdrakars,thesewerethefirsttocrosstheatlanticandthatsayssomething)Butinthemediterean,theitaliansweretradingwitheachotherandsouthernfrance(liketheprovence)andthosethings.Alsotheyhadtoholdoffmuslimswhoalsohadaccesstothemediterrean.
Andiguessthebyzantineshadagreatnavyatthosedays,andtheyusedshipsthatresembledlikequadriremes/galleys-->thatinfluencedthe15thcenturymeditereangalleys
Well,Byzantineshipsaremoreofamarriagebetweengalleys,andthemuslimdhow.
It'sactuallymoretodowithsailingconditionsintheMediterraneanasopposedtosaytheNorthSea.EnclosedseassuchastheMed,BalticandBlacktendtobemuchcalmerwithfarmorepredictabletidesandwindsthanvastopenseassuchastheNorthorAtlantic.Trytakingagalleyintoanopenseaandit'llbesunkinthefirstsquall.
NorthernEuropesawplentyofNavalconflict,infactit'sthefirsttheatrewherecannonwereusedoverboarding,againlikelyduetothesailingconditions.Differenceis,theydidn'thaveanorganisednavy.
Notentirelytrue.Englandbuiltgalleysinthe13thand14thcentury.FrancedeployedgalleysinBoulognein1339andhadGenoesegalleysatBrestin1342.Also,VikinglongshipsareverysimilartoMediterraneangalleys,andhaveverylowfreeboard,yettheymanagedtoplythenorthernseasveryregularly.
MyimpressionisthatanypowerineithertheAtlanticortheMediterraneanwhichwasseriousaboutseapowerandcouldaffordtodosobuiltgalleys,upuntilthelate14th/early15thcentury.Oaredshipsaremuchmoremaneuverable,andtheyusuallycarriedsignificantlymoremen.
Also,agalleyfleetcanbeach.Thismeansthatitcanactincoordinationwithabesiegingarmytocutoffacityfromthesea.
Finally,althoughagalleyhastoworryaboutlowfreeboard,itdoeshaveoneadvantageifbadweatherisbrewing--itcanseeksheltermuchmoreeasily,bothbecauseitcanbeachitselfandbecauseitcanrowagainstthewind.
However,oaredshipsareexpensive,becauseyouneedrowers.Theyhavesmallercargocapacity,becausetheyneedtobelowtothewatertoberowedefficiently.Theyhaveamorerestrictedcruisingrange,becausetheyneedtoputintoshoreforwatereverycoupleofdays,orevenmorefrequentlyiftherowersareexertingthemselves.
Woodenshipsrot,soifthey'renotpayingforthemselvesbyrunningcargo,thecostofmaintainingafleetcanreallyaddup.EventhoughEnglandbuiltgalleys,I'mnotsureiftheywereeverusedinbattle--probablytheyrottedbeforetheywereuseful,orthetrainedrowersneededtomanthemwanderedoffbecausetheirpaywasinarrears,orbecauseofsomeothertypicalmedievalsnafu.
Thingsseemtochangeabitinthe15thcenturyasmedievalshipwrightsstartedtobeabletobuildsomereallyvastwatercraft,likeHenryV'sGraceDieu,thatwouldhavebeenverydifficulttoattackwithalow-lyinggalley.However,thesewarshipswouldalsohaveahardtimeattackingagalley,becauseitcouldjustmaneuveroutofrange.Cannondonotseemtohavefactoredintoshipdesignuntilfairlylate,althoughnodoubttheyweremounted.
GalleysseemtodieoutintheAtlanticafter1400,althoughtheypersistintheMedasthepremierewarshipuntiltheearly17thcentury.YoualsofindthemintheBalticandevenintheGreatLakesuntilthe19thcentury.Soclearlyroughseasareafactor,butnottheonlyfactor,indeterminingwhetherornotagivennavyoptsforgalleysversussailingships.Technologyandtheeconomyalsomakeadifference.
Ifyou'reinterestedindesign,atypicalMediterraneanwarshipwouldprobablybeclassedasabiremebytheancients.Itisverylowtothewater(halfameteratmidships,plusarailing)whichmakesitmuchmoreefficientthanmostancientships.So,amedievalgalleycancarry200menofwhom100arerowers,andbecausethey'realloneonedecktheycandoubleasmarines.AGreektriremehas170rowersandonly30marines,andtherowersarebelowdeck.
Medievalhullsweremoreflexiblethanancienthullsandthusprobablyimpervioustoramming,soinsteadshipsmounta"spur"(likearamabovethewaterline)thatcanbeusedtocrushtheoarsandpossiblytherailingtomakeforeasierboarding.Althoughtheyareverylowtothewateramidships,theycanprobablymountasmall"castle"attheprowandsterntomakeupfortheheightdisadvantage.Yourstandardgalleywouldprobablyhavetwomainlateen(triangular)sails,whichIthinkwouldbetakendownandstowedforbattle.
Thisisagoodreconstructionofadromonfromaroundthe9thcentury,takenfromJohnPryor'sAgeoftheDromonviaWiki.Unlikeamedievalgalleyithasonebankofoarsbelowdecks,whichwouldmakeitabitsloweralbeitsomewhathigheroutofthewater.
ThisreconstructionhasaGreekfiresiphonmountedattheprow.Greekfirewasascaryweaponbutit'sactualperformanceinhistoricalseabattleswasprettyhit-and-miss.Maybewindconditionshadtobejustrightbeforeitwasused.Consequently,othernationsmighthaveoptedtoskiptheincendiariesandmounttowersontheprowinstead.
Peoplestilldroppedallkindsofthingsoneachother'sdecks,includingslippystuffusedtomaketheenemylosetheirfooting.Unevenfootingmakesabigdifferenceinnavalbattles,andprobablygivestheadvantagetosomewhatmorelightlyarmoredtroops.Missilefireseemsalsotohavebeenasormoreeffectiveasameleeadvantage,withCatalancrossbowmenandEnglisharchersbothseemingtobeparticularlyvaluableatsea.
ThatisthekeydifferencebetweennorthernandMediterraneannavalwarfare.EnglandandFrancedidhaveorganizedgalleyfleets,buttheywereverysmall,andseemnottohavebeenavailablewhentheywereneeded.
Agalleyfleetisexpensivetomaintain.Itcanonlypayforitselfintimeofpeaceifthevaluesofcargoswasveryhigh,andtheriskalsoveryhigh.
Theaverageprofitfromanorthernvoyagetransportingbeer,grain,orsomesimilarcommoditywas25percent.TheaverageprofitfromaMediterraneanvoyagecarryingspicefromAlexandriacouldbeashighas100to150percent.Thus,itmadesensetotakethelatterinaswiftgalleyorconvoyofgalleys--anditmadesenseforanotherpowertotrytointerceptthatspiceconvoy.
Inotherwords,richerseassustainmoreexpensivefleets.
ThesamephenomenonhelpsexplainwhyBalticcitiesformedaleague(theHansa)whileMediterraneancitiescompetedsovigorouslyagainsteachother.
(Source,HendrikSpruyt,TheSovereignStateanditsCompetitors)
I'vebeenreadingalotaboutnavalwarfarerecently,andI'lltrytopostasummaryofmyobservationsatsomepoint.
Inthemeantime,ifanyonewantstoreadaboutgalleywarfareinaM&B-liketimeperiod,Ihighlyrecommendwiking/googlingRogerofLauria,oneofthemedievalworld'smostcelebratedadmirals.
FranceandEnglandbothutilisedthemintheChannel.Allcoastalnationswouldhavegalleystosomeextent;untiltheinventionofthetugboatthey'reoftentheonlymeansofgettingasailingboatintotheharbourduringacontrarywind.England(andIsuspectFrancetoo)alsoutilisedgalleysasgunboatsforportdefences;theoarpowerletsyoufieldmuchbiggergunsthanyoucouldonasailingship(althoughthatbeingsaid,theywereusuallyrowedortowedouttoso
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